UGH Having such a hard time figuring out upgrades for my PC. I'm seeing some issues on my PC performance, usually 100% cpu usage on games like SWTOR, especially when I'm on the Fleet in a crowded auction hall. Any of you guys got suggestions for me? There's really too many options out there. I'd like to spend less than $500 total for my upgrade project. I've been looking at trying to get ugprades for memory, vid card and harddrive. I'm also going to be upgrading from XP to 7 finally.
Current Build:
Case: Eagletech Sidewinder Gaming Tower
Power Supply: 600 Watt -- XION SuperNova XON-600R14
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E6850 (2x 3.0GHz/4MB L2 Cache)
Board: Asus Striker Extreme nForce® 680i SLI Chipset w/7.1 Sound, Gb LAN, S-ATA Raid, USB 2.0, IEEE-1394 Dual PCI-E MB
Memory: PNY Brand DDR2 4GB (2x2G)
Drive: 320 GB HARD DRIVE [Serial-ATA-II, 3Gb, 7200 RPM, 16M Cache)
Video: Nvidia GTS 250 1GB
After talking to a few guys at work and showing them my build, they suggested going to a SSD harddrive and then focusing on vidcard and memory last. Again, I'm looking to get the biggest bang for my buck in terms of improved performance. I'd like to upgrade all 3 but would be up for spending more on say a SSD drive and vid card. I'm really at a loss though as there are so many options out there right now. I've been trying to through the charts here: ( http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/)
The SSD suggestion is right on. Prices in many cases are finally below 1$/GB. I've read a lot of good things about the G.Skill brand SSD's. Give them a look. Realistically your video card is probably okay for a while yet. Rather, I would focus on motherboard/CPU/memory along with the SSD. You can do all those on the budget you suggest. You won't be top of the line by any stretch, but you'll be a whole lot better off than you are right now. Look into Core i5/i3 Intel CPUs, along with as much memory as you can muster. Memory is very cheap right now (as in 16GB name brand memory for less than $100 cheap). There are a lot of good budget motherboards out there right now.
I'm very much an Asus guy for motherboards, but I've had good luck with MSI, Gigabyte, ASRock and others. I am currently running a budget ASRock motherboard in my home theater PC and it has never had a single issue. I've never had an Asus build go bad that I can remember (one Asus video card, but never a motherboard). You should be able to find a budget motherboard for <= $100 (go a little more if you can afford it). Make sure it supports minimum 4 sticks and at least as much memory as you intend to install, as well as PCI-Express 3.0 and SATA-III (6Gbps). That will get you the most bang for the buck.
As a starting point, have a look at these items, and then if you dig a little deeper, you should find what you're looking for. This isn't necessarily a suggested build, just decent budget items to help you narrow down your search (even though these items should work fine without conflicts).
120GB G.Skill Phoenix III SSD (Newegg.com)
Kingston Hyper-X Blu 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM
Thanks for the advice Vol. I'm not in a rush to upgrade which gives me plenty of time to research and ask around.
Looking at the board I have, it will support my ram goal of at least 8GB. Upgrading to Win7 64bit I'm hoping to get two 4GB sticks. However, the board only supports DDR2 memory. Is it really worth spending the money on a new board? I know that DDR3 memory is a lot less expensive than DDR2.
I guess that's the frustration for me in that I've read and been told 10 different approaches for upgrades. Everyone seems to agree about the SSD being a big help, but others have said to leave the board and processor and focus on memory and vid card. Others have said board, and processor like you mentioned.
On tomshardware.com, someone suggested this...
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A10-5800k cpu $130 bucks it is a 3.8 quad core with a built in card into its cpu a HD 7660D so you are getting a quad core at 3.8 ghz as well as a HD 7660D graphics card for a 130 price tag. Plus it is about like a i3 in comparison
Throw in the fastest ram you can (the faster the ram the better this cpu performs) and a decent FM2 socket motherboard and you will have one sweet gaming machine. In fact i made a build http://pcpartpicker.com/p/jIlh making a whole new tower from scratch. Grand price for it all? 487.28 and you can adjust that build to how you like it.
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Prae, I would agree with Vol that a change of board and proc is necessary. Your systems architecture is too far behind to do meaningful upgrades without it. I don't believe spending money on an older platform is a worthy investment. Also, while SSD's are certainly helpful for load times in games, they won't alleviate the 100% CPU usage issue your seeing.
The suggestion from Tomshardware's forums wasn't a bad one. While AMD does not out perform Intel the cost of upgrade paths is significantly less when you consider both board and proc. And the nice thing about the new proc's with built in video cards is they work extremely well when you add a video card later.
After upgrading the MB I would suggest 8GB of ram. I saw a significant performance increase in SWTOR when I went from 4 to 8. More is always nice, but I don't think you'll need more than that to achieve quality game performance.
LOL It seems I started a bit of a war between 2 guys on that other forum. Theyre debating/arguing/flaming each other over the setup I posted above VS the one I posted below. Vol, BKG, what's your thoughts on the second setup? Keep note that this 2nd setup does not leave me any money for a SSD drive and suggests keeping the 360GB 7200 RPM one I have now.
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Reusing your Case, PSU, HDD, DVD
EVGA SuperClocked 02G-P4-2662-KR GeForce GTX 660 2GB 192-bit GDDR5
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814130826
CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820233186
AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819103727
COOLER MASTER Hyper TX3 RR-910-HTX3-G1 "Heatpipe Direct Contact" 92mm CPU Cooler
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835103064
GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3 AM3+ AMD 970 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813128519
Those parts total $503.95
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Here's a bit of their recent exchange if it helps.
zolton33 <---Suggested the 1st build I posted
wr6133 <---Suggested the 2nd build I just posted
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wr6133 wrote :
Learn to read the benches I provided test using a dedicated GPU the Phenom wins granted by a TINY margin but thats still a win. Also your now out of context the options presented to the OP dont include an a10 with a GTX660 so the comaprsion is an a10 with IGP or phenom II with gtx660. The Phenom and 660 clearly will game better
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zolton33 wrote :
I did not recommend a discrete gpu for several reasons. But even if i subtract the build i recommend with the one you did gives me $225 to put into a gpu. But i saw no huge gain right off the bat with putting in anew gpu right away. The 7660 built it may not be top of the line but games well and left money in the op's budget for an ssd. They could always either crossfire later or go with a newer better gpu within their price range later. I do suggest you go read up some more on the 5800k and how well it performs. And i certainly hope you do not go to only one place for all your answers. With any thing it is always best to read reviews from multiple sources not just 1 or 2.
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zolton33 wrote :
You seem to miss the part where you are suggesting they buy your cpu plus the mobo plus a discrete gpu to beat out a cost of just the cpu and mobo right?
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wr6133 wrote :
Stop trying to twist the topic the OP has $500 my suggestion will allow him to game at higher settings than yours. You inefficiently spent his money
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zolton33 wrote :
For your costs i could recommend an i3 2100 a decent 1155 mobo and a great discrete gpu that would easily dance circlesaround the phenom.
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wr6133 wrote :
Again you show now you dont understand hardware. Mildly overclocked the Phenom will game equally with the i3 outside of gaming the Phenoms cores make it better. Again you cant argue that the a10 is a stronger CPU so you try to alter the subject... also as a sidenote if you say the i3 is a better choice than the phenom then by default you (as its proven the phenom is a stronger cpu than a10) reverse earlier statements saying the a10 was better than an i3
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zolton33 wrote :
The 5800k is better for price versus performance. Other main differences in the build you recommended and mine? With the fm2 socket you have an upgrade path later on for a newer apu later on. But of course the phenom is the better route? Pahlease
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wr6133 wrote :
Show me a map saying FM2 socket will have further releases? There isn't if its like FM1 it will have this single generation with that a10 being the best that can ever be used on the socket. The AM3+ socket I recommend will have at the least the upcoming new FX series and possibly more so you fail here I provide the better upgrade path
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More from the discussion. The newer posts at the bottom have some new info and an alt build someone else suggested
Zolton only understands what is statistically / numerically the best option. The concepts of value and budget are obviously foreign to him.
I have to admit I haven't followed the A10's (and subsequent models) closely so Mal may need to weigh in on this. Though Mal is a hardcore Intel man - so add salt. But I do agree with wr6133.. the concept of what he is proposing is sound. The a10 will allow you to game far more efficiently than you do know and give you an easy and awesome upgrade path in the future by adding a GPU in Crossfire with the a10. The slight increase in frame rates you would get from the other option does not, in my opinion, warrant the added cost.
Zolton was the one who suggested the A10. wr6133 suggested the Phenom.
Pricing both out, they both come to about $200 for the mobo and processor. Having said that, would you still go with the A-10?
This is the build I would use if I went with the Phenom.
You'll be fine with what B is saying. I'll only add two caveats:
1. It's recently been discovered that the CPU plays an even more important role in gaming than previously thought (as in discovered within the last few months), and in the ways that CPUs are needed for gaming, Intel beat AMD hands down when comparing otherwise equivalent CPUs (even from older generations). As in it wasn't even close. Games are getting more and more resource intensive, and this isn't going to level off any time soon. As we're able to effectively throw more and more resources at gaming due to the power that can be brought to the table because hardware is more affordable than ever, developers are doing their best to make full use of that hardware.
2. RAM is at an all time low price point. If you look at the RAM I linked above, you'll see it's 8GB for $35... which is absolutely RIDICULOUS! So, 16GB is $70.
$70?!?!?!? And this is Kingston Hyper-X RAM we're talking about.
Again, games are becoming more and more resource intensive, and the more RAM you can throw at any game, the better off you'll be. Eliminating any shortcomings before they become a shortcoming is always a good idea. 8GB is great, but 16GB is even better. I run 12GB in both my home and work machines, and there have been a few times that I wanted more. Granted, those were usually times when I was setting up test networks in VMware with 5 or 6 virtual machines... but the reasons still apply. If you stick with 8GB, be sure to buy 2 4GB sticks, rather than 4 2GB sticks. That will allow you to buy another set down the road and double your RAM, rather than having to replace any of the RAM you buy now.
Just some more food for thought.
Im kinda confused though on B's response because he mentioned he agreed with wrg6133, but then mentioned the A10 which was actually mentioned by the zorton guy that he said not to put much weight on.
Okay look at it like this... you want at least 4 cores in your CPU for modern gaming. That's the target number developers are threading games for these days. If both have 4 cores, then go with the less expensive option as long as they're fairly close in capability. I did say the CPU plays a more important role than previously thought, but the video card is still the most important part of a gaming rig. However, in your current setup, your CPU is severely holding back your GPU.
By the way, to support my claim about the CPU, here is what I'm talking about. This is where the CPU is important to gaming.
So since both the A10 and Phenom are quad core, and both relativity the same price, I should look at the intangibles. While I likely wont upgrade this PC again for several years at minimum, the Phenom and the boards that support it appear to have some upgrade options coming down the line. The A-10 appears to be the pinnacle of that line if what those guys on the board said.
Prae,
Forgive me for the confusion. I have 3 different major install projects going at the same time so I haven't had much time to read the boards. I read the message you posted earlier in the morning before leaving.
My point on the A-10 is that it provides a very competent video card built into the CPU for the same price as the Phenom. Then, when you want/need to add more GPU power you can get a video card that works in tangent with 7600 that's built in. This provides you with a serious upgrade to your capabilities now while saving the cost of a new GPU till later. You can pocket that cost or spend it on an SSD.
And I agree completely with Mal that your CPU is the largest bottleneck your current system has. That was a great processor in its day but it's run it's course. Either of the AMD options will give you a very significant increase in your gaming experience. Yes, Intel will give you more, but at a higher price. If you can afford the Intel route then I absolutely recommend it. However, you are having to change a large portion of your entire system out. So I'm not sure Intel is in the budget. I do believe strongly though that you will be satisfied with the investment in AMD at this time, I believe it would be worthwhile.
